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Post by classicrock on Feb 28, 2024 10:41:44 GMT
That I believe is a new Chord integrated so I presume passive ATC SCM40's. It actually sounded pretty good. Chord equipment usually drives me out of the room within a minute. Frankly the passive ATC SCM 40s seem relatively good value when you compare to other manufacturers. even the more upmarket IAG offerings. Talking IAG they also had the new Aura 3 which I preferred to the Denton but I'm not sure they are worth £3K. Finish is like Elysian and look far better than Evo range (but a big price jump). Also new Tannoys at eye watering prices. New Tannoy Stering III LZ SE. £11999. They actually sounded pretty good but built in China and who knows where. 'Engineered and designed in UK'.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 28, 2024 12:05:33 GMT
I wonder if Chinese build is as cheap as it used to be? If so, those Tannoys would come to the UK for no more than a grand and I'm being very generous here..... The ATC mid dome has an issue which needs steep crossover slopes and phase matching to the bass unit to make it fully seamless. The passives (40's up) just can't do it properly and I had this chapter and verse from Billy himself (who designed the effin' things and only did the passive versions for domestic types - conversion to active was cheap then and the speakers went back to the factory for fine tuning of said parameters) No idea what Chord were playing into the 50 passives I heard but it was a kind of cracking/clipping distortion! PLEASE try to hear the Dynaudio Focus 50's when/if you can. It's the only Dynaudio I would own I think (the Confidence 60's at forty odd grand give me a headache and the others are 'meh to me). Prices of gear is damned ludicrous and extreme these days. On the one hand you get cheapo baby amps with stunning performance (not sure anyone would hear half a dB at 15kHz or '-80dB distortion at that frequency) and serious power now, a new Yamaha receiver at £300 ($199 in the US) with great performance for an AB type and 100WPC typically - and then you get this 'stuff' costing many thousands, full of bling and often with poor performance to boot. Sorry fellas, just venting in frustration. I'll get over it one day
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Post by André on Feb 28, 2024 12:33:09 GMT
What i seen for sale chinese are taking the piss prices have gone up
s'ok Dave you right their is a lot of high priced crap sounding Hi-Fi
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Post by dsjr on Feb 28, 2024 13:45:08 GMT
What i seen for sale chinese are taking the piss prices have gone up s'ok Dave you right their is a lot of high priced crap sounding Hi-Fi Andr'e, none of this at either end is really for 'us' is it? I mean, we can trawl throuigh good (still) used gear with decades of life left (my Crown amps are fifty years old this year and the Sony La Scala amp/tuner/CD upstairs is from the mid 90's and with speaker relay replaced, 'sounds' fine into late 90's Diamond 7.2SE's) and get a seriously good sound for relative peanuts if we do it right (you got those KEFs playing yet?)
I look at reviews on ASR (yes, I know, don't remind me) and can read the graphs well enough. The little wonder-amps coming out give a fantastic performance and the Yamaha 201 receiver tested is definitely better than say a Creek was in the 80's (orders of magnitude really) and also a Quad 44 and 405-2 which was more than 'good enough' back then, even if it didn't like 4 ohm and below loads as seen today and which that Yamaha can handle without burning up it seems.
I've not attended a show in twenty two years now (the local one is too small to count). Are any of you planning on visiting the northern show later this year? I suspect that'd be more interesting probably?
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Post by André on Feb 28, 2024 13:55:23 GMT
Yeah the KEF's are done, Had em on for half an hour the other day. Sound great just like i remember.
The last one i went to wasnt a mainstream show but the 2nd porkpie show, i was glad to get out tbh. Enthusiasts idea of Hi-Fi & mine are worlds apart.
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Post by classicrock on Feb 28, 2024 14:52:03 GMT
Comprehensive film coverage on Youtube. Covers stuff I missed or didn't think was worth a photo.
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Post by classicrock on Feb 28, 2024 15:09:25 GMT
As far as prices go I don't think there is a great deal of genuinely better over £4-£5K components. I'm not convinced that cheapo Class D amps from China and small active speakers really cut it in a serious system that has to fill a medium to large room. There is a lot of nice kit £500 to £1K per component but you don't often see it at shows or manufacturers want to show of their 'statement' products. I just discovered a guy in Devon that is doing a BC1 like speaker for around £1300. He normally does refurbishments and repairs. If these manufacturers simplified finishes and cabinets and concentrated on just good electronic components I think many products would be far cheaper. How about direct sell at proper wholesale prices instead of slurping dealer margin for themselves. I am convinced shipping costs from China are wiping out labour cost savings. Some of those Tannoys may cost a grand to make but there is packaging, shipping, distribution and retail margin. All involving people who are not on Chinese pay. Still think most are double the price they should be. Let's be realistic people pay £300 plus for a phone or £000's for flat screen TV with high resolution you can't use. It's not only hi-fi.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 8, 2024 13:14:34 GMT
Class D amps from EUROPE can be got for two grand or less I'm increasingly convinced that the UK is in such a dire state that everything seems to have rocketed in price over the last ten years. The far east seems to be where it's at (not sure that the German audio scene is as lucrative as it once was) and price tags rule. I firmly believe that casework and facilities aside, properly designed 'digital' and same for amps amps are a done deal and actually boring now, the cheapest don't have to be unreliable and although cheapskates always shout the loudest when things go wrong (always the ones wanting a healthy discount in my day), the little amount of info available suggests failure rate really isn't an issue bearing in mind the thousands of units made.. I mean, UK product even Quad at times wasn't very reliable as a breed, but few shouted about it I remember.
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Post by Westie on Mar 8, 2024 17:24:27 GMT
Class D amps from EUROPE can be got for two grand or less I'm increasingly convinced that the UK is in such a dire state that everything seems to have rocketed in price over the last ten years. The far east seems to be where it's at (not sure that the German audio scene is as lucrative as it once was) and price tags rule. I firmly believe that casework and facilities aside, properly designed 'digital' and same for amps amps are a done deal and actually boring now, the cheapest don't have to be unreliable and although cheapskates always shout the loudest when things go wrong (always the ones wanting a healthy discount in my day), the little amount of info available suggests failure rate really isn't an issue bearing in mind the thousands of units made.. I mean, UK product even Quad at times wasn't very reliable as a breed, but few shouted about it I remember. I’ve heard loads of reports of McIntosh Amps failing and I’ve seen some shoddy QC on the expensive Luxmans. QC is probably no worse on most Chinese stuff, and better on a good few. I’ve happily bought and enjoyed Breeze Audio and Q Acoustics bits. For my main pleasure though, it’s still used vintage kit.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 8, 2024 17:45:00 GMT
You've seen pics of my power amp haven't you - no (once optional) front panel so it 'stands' on its front and with flaky paint and scuffs on the transformer case. Here it is from a post I made on ASR - Don't care what it looks like, it's as transparent to the music as it needs to be...
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Post by André on Mar 8, 2024 17:51:47 GMT
You've seen pics of my power amp haven't you - no (once optional) front panel so it 'stands' on its front and with flaky paint and scuffs on the transformer case. Here it is from a post I made on ASR - Don't care what it looks like, it's as transparent to the music as it needs to be...
Dave where has the fascia gone?
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Post by dsjr on Mar 8, 2024 18:54:29 GMT
Many of them never had one... It was an optional extra in this model* along with the rack 'ears' and solid wooden enclosure (which I have for one of the preamps). This is how most of them were sold, hidden away somewhere. The D-150A had the panel with power and gain controls on the front. Mine is cap coupled on the input where the A version should really be called a DC-150A as apparently said cap was removed so the thing would go down to DC. *One panel came up in the US a couple of years ago and it would have cost a ton all in to get it here. I hummed and hared about it and before I could pull the buy-it-now trigger the damned thing had gone It does need the rack ears to proportion it right though. The used prices are climbing now along with everything else and you might see a panel on its own every five years or so....
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Post by Westie on Mar 8, 2024 20:43:18 GMT
Is the 300 any better? Just asking in case I see one at a decent price and fancied a punt.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 9, 2024 10:55:05 GMT
Is the 300 any better? Just asking in case I see one at a decent price and fancied a punt. Well, it's like this...
The D-60 has little power and 'farts' if clipped, but it was said to have the 'nicest' tone of the three. I have a stereo one plus two bridged sets I inherited and the tightness in the bass compared to some 'Musical' models can make it appear lean sometimes - perfect for those old IMF's and similar with bass that over does it but plumbs the depths... bridged sets have a slightly 'looser' feel not suited so well in the bass to the Harbeths or Spendors here.
The D-150 was judged to be a dry sounding amp and well, it is, but I find even now that I can hear into recordings and easily hear production and mixing changes if I want to, the Harbeths being the limitation as to absolute focusing.
I LOVE the DC300A and fifty years ago it was judged a real 'animal' of an amp before other US behemoths and Accuphase etc. were imported starting in '75 or so. My pal's late 70's 300A mk1.5 (satin ally front, ally knobs and IOC lights to show when levels and distortion get too high) to me sounds divine in a iron fist in velvet glove kind of way, but I'd respectfully suggest that a Quad 606mk2/707 and onwards is within a knats of the power (about a dB or so), easier to service and arguably a better product all round now. With those Snell or whatever speakers I believe you use these days, I'd suggest you simply won't need this kind of power really - and neither do I!!! - and it could be argued that at low domestic levels it may not have the transparency these days that I know the Quad has, let alone your beloved Sonneteer amps have (I did compare an Alabaster with a QSP and they were comparable I remember! Until I get my greasy paws on one and actually USE the thing, it's a moot point
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Post by Westie on Mar 9, 2024 12:23:05 GMT
Thanks, Dave, that’s a great answer and full of stuff I didn’t know. Of course, you’re right that my Snells just don’t need the muscle. I doubt I will ever use a speaker other than Snell or Reference 3a.
Funnily enough, I think the Campion is the best Sonneteer amp. I’ve owned all three at the same time and I’ve had more than one example of campion and Alabaster, so I’m certain of this. Haider actually said that the Alabaster came about because new legislation meant they could no longer use the components that made the Campion sound the way they wanted. The Orton came about when Remo tried two Campions, each using only one channel. The Orton was (IMO) compromised by having to use inferior transistors and layout, as well as not being able to have the bits that made the Campion so wonderful.
So here’s the pecking order:
Two Campions: I really doubt you’d get more clarity, separation and poise. As close to perfect as anything I can imagine, as long as you don’t have insensitive speakers with a very difficult load.
One Campion: When you’ve heard two, you realise the bits you’ve been missing. Otherwise you’ll just find it as pure as distilled water.
Orton: Sounds like a “forced” Campion with more of an impression of power, but ultimately it’s like somethings been pasted on. Still a very good amp but it’s just not as natural and it artificially pushes the soundstage forward, as well as limiting height and width.
Alabaster: very much a “poor man’s” Campion. Thicker sounding with lower resolution. Slightly more bass weight, but it’s not as well defined or as authentic. I didn’t notice any ability to go louder, despite the extra power. I have a feeling that the Alabaster suffers from the loss of whatever components Sonneteer were unable to continue using due to the new ROHs legislation. I’ve never heard the very last version of the Campion and I wouldn’t want to because I know the changes were forced upon them.
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