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Post by dsjr on Jul 4, 2020 10:43:27 GMT
One for completeness -
The incredible tribal gatherings to hurl stones and more at old models like this, the PMC and also twenty year old old Harbeth M30 is awful on the ASR site. Unlike subjectivists who hear and never measure, the opposite is true here, where a ripple on a response plot can condemn an otherwise ok design. To compare these with a cheap-as-chips Elac purely on the response is obscene to me, but then, I'm an ATC fan for the tiny rooms I listen in and don't mind the concept of needing a very powerful amp to begin to drive them!
O to have a large room where the speakers can be pulled a metre or more out from walls...
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Post by antonio66 on Jul 4, 2020 13:53:06 GMT
I have to say I'm very surprised, always thought ATC's would measure exceptionally well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 15:13:31 GMT
Amir's pink panther is priceless.
S.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 4, 2020 18:09:51 GMT
My original 20's from 1991 were fklatter than this and offered very wide dispersion - novel for a domestic HiFi dealer to listen well off axis and not lose the speaker further away (I hate omni's - sorry Antonio but I did try). twenty two years or so ago, ATC changed the magnet design to the 'SL' spec and the 50, 100 and 20 speakers changed their tonal balance (my 100's were 'done' by the new owner and it involved substantial port alterations as well as new bass drivers). Here's an 'appreciation' of the infamous Yamaha NS10 done around twenty years ago. Half way down there are responses of then modern monitors and the ATC 20ASL pro's I had are measured with the same response as the passive 19's tested on ASR.
Sorry chaps, I know most aren't interested in the technicalities of speaker design as long as they 'sound' good at the end of it all, but it intrigues me as to why a speaker was altered to sound different. I get the impression the current designer has tamed the excesses. Oh, and for ASR regulars, I get the impression Harbeth are in the process of investing a hell of a lot of money in Klippel test gear if I read their forum and Alan's posts right, so that'll be interesting for future new models as the current crop can't be taken much further. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 5, 2020 10:43:50 GMT
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Post by Westie on Jul 5, 2020 17:23:43 GMT
They don’t half look like quality. I love ATC drivers. They always look a cut above. I know you had issues with your ears fir a while. Are they any better now? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 18:28:16 GMT
 apparently No. Sorry Dave could not resist that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 19:25:41 GMT
My father in 2009 briefly had some SCM19s. Can confirm they are indeed heavy! They weigh almost 20kg each!
S.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 5, 2020 20:16:57 GMT
My ears were good until the early noughties when I began ti get repeated ear infections. I saw a specialist in 2003 or so who diagnosed an adult version of 'Glue Ear' and Tinnitus. Since then and with the Diabetes, my left ear is the one that can give real trouble but sometimes, they're clear for a few hours and it's wonderful!!!
You don't *need* to make drivers look so chunky and apparently there's something to be said for not having loads of metal behind the cone. The 700Hz 'glitch' is apparently something in the paper cone material and it's also close to where the centre cloth dome takes over. Not that I believe it to be audible.
Most important of all with this brand's passive speakers is the need for power and a brief ownership of any of them with a standard domestic amp is a bit of a no-no really as the sound will be stuck firmly in the box in my experience, although the forward nature of a Naim amp hides this a little until the low limits are reached and the amp distorts. In the opposite way, a pair of Snell E II's that sounded great when Audio Innovations driven in a large room and sat on low 'Pirate' stands, sounded absolute shite in my small room, all boom with a nasty screech at the crossover poiont, smothered usually by the AI amps and greater listening distance. I didn't keep them long - a few days... I replaced them with NS1000M's.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 20:28:31 GMT
My father in 2009 briefly had some SCM19s. Can confirm they are indeed heavy! They weigh almost 20kg each! S. Aye cos ATC crossover weigh as much as a speaker alone LOL |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 20:30:37 GMT
My ears were good until the early noughties when I began ti get repeated ear infections. I saw a specialist in 2003 or so who diagnosed an adult version of 'Glue Ear' and Tinnitus. Since then and with the Diabetes, my left ear is the one that can give real trouble but sometimes, they're clear for a few hours and it's wonderful!!! Do you think your iffy lug holes is the reason you think Digital Files sound good & why Records sound Dull? S'ok to say Dave most Audiophiles are tone Deaf.  |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 5, 2020 22:01:36 GMT
That is seriously not funny!  I discovered how good digital was over thirty years ago and there was nothing wrong with my ears then. The mind behind them possibly, but not the ears themselves! I had Yamaha NS1000M's followed by Epos ES14's back then and believe me, the hf on these would have shown up any shortcomings. I can't demonstrate this stuff, so best I shut up about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 22:27:59 GMT
ffks Dave chill out only having a bit of banter.. That aside as ive got more & more intolerant to Digital as ive gotten older, Analogue is like heaven to me now, just like when i first started out, the excitement is back. This is what puzzles how you prefer Digital!!
Thing is Digital was even worse 30 years ago! Even i hear improvements these days.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 22:33:36 GMT
Go back to Zippos Circus you clown, Andre.  S. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 22:36:04 GMT
Go back to Zippos Circus you clown, Andre. S. Well you aint got nothing constructive to say seen as you know ferk all about anything other than the tiny little circle you keep going around & around in. Sitting on the Fence |
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apparently No. Sorry Dave could not resist that.
