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Post by Westie on Jun 15, 2022 9:05:04 GMT
The more I think about it, the more I believe this outcome was planned, Boris relies heavily on the Brexit legacy to hang onto his remaining base and to court the affections of the ERG.
They would know the European Court would step in. It stirs up anti-European sentiments and raises the question of withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights. Blair stupidly ratified this into law, and it will now likely be repealed, which will strengthen Boris’s grass roots support, appease the ERG and stir up Brexit emotions yet again.
For anyone reading who thinks “Human Rights” are sacrosanct, have a read of the “rights” enshrined. It goes way too far and makes control of immigration almost impossible. Things like “right to a family life” have been taken way too far. I have no problem with people enjoying a family life, as long as it’s not in Britain at the taxpayers expense. If you wish to claim asylum, you will have already passed through several safe countries before reaching here. Nobody should be claiming asylum here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2022 21:20:06 GMT
ffks now Brussels are taking UK to court. This Gov has gotta go
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Post by Westie on Jun 15, 2022 21:40:47 GMT
All part of Boris’s strategy to pick a row with the EU. It was what got him elected and he’s banking on stirring up another distraction to deflect from his unpopularity.
The Tories are an utter disgrace of a party. They are the most corrupt and out of touch shower to ever lead the country.
You are dead right. They absolutely have to go and they will be utterly routed if they have to go to the country with Boris as their leader.
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Post by Westie on Jun 15, 2022 22:30:54 GMT
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Post by classicrock on Jun 15, 2022 22:55:03 GMT
ffks now Brussels are now taking UK to court. This Gov has gotta go Perhaps some people should consider that the EU are in the wrong here. Refusal to negotiate? Didn't this behaviour cause Brexit in the first place? |
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Post by Westie on Jun 15, 2022 23:13:24 GMT
I can’t agree. You can’t sign a deal and then change your mind later. Boris knew these issues existed when he was campaigning for Brexit, let alone when he put his Brexit deal to parliament.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2022 4:36:52 GMT
Wouldnt have it been easier to just get rid of Ireland altogether.
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Post by Westie on Jun 16, 2022 8:43:57 GMT
Absolutely, but until the catholics of voting age overtake the Protestants and vote for a united Ireland, it won’t happen,
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Post by Westie on Jun 16, 2022 8:45:53 GMT
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Post by classicrock on Jun 16, 2022 9:03:05 GMT
Absolutely, but until the catholics of voting age overtake the Protestants and vote for a united Ireland, it won’t happen, It's not about religion really. So many people voted for alliance and other parties. I'm sure there are plenty Catholics who prefer to remain in the union. There really should never be a vote on this as it would result in war. There are still plenty who are looking for a reason to get the guns and bombs out again. |
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Post by classicrock on Jun 16, 2022 9:26:34 GMT
You mean the scumbag backstabbing Tory MPs who voted to get rid of him. One quite local is very vocal but he also was opposed to Covid lockdowns. Frankly the opposition is quite disparate so Boris has to please a lot more people than the remains of the ERG. He never had overwhelming support from the party. As someone pointed out the 40% against him is less than voted for other candidate when was elected. What other country would kick out a leader over walking into an office and finding a Birthday cake and a few eats and drinks on the table. No actual evidence to suggest anything else. I never expected Boris to be an office manager has he obviously is not suited. There was a breakdown in the civil service to allow a lot of things to happen. Certainly not a continuous party as the media would have you believe. If Boris goes I predict things will go from bad to worse. Nobody has any answers to the current problems. Remember the Brexit agreement was already effed up before he took over and EU had us over a barrel due to May's total incompetence which would have meant us in effect being in the EU without actually having any voting rights. I can't see how agreements are not open to change in international law if one party won't negotiate. A lot of things need to change in this country as we are still operating under rules established around 1688. The proposed changes to NI are meant to be a ploy to get EU to the table. Are they really serious about suing the UK government? it's all a political game that obviously could go wrong but not good outcome for both sides. i don't trust the Eu especially the French and Germans. There are signs they would sell Ukraine down the river at the drop of a hat and continue licking Putin's ass. |
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Post by Westie on Jun 16, 2022 10:03:35 GMT
Yes, those same backstabbing idiots that have held the Tory party to ransom since the days of Major.
What you’re glossing over is that Boris signed the current deal and oversaw its transition into law. He also lied through his teeth about what Brexit really meant. Remember the claims about all the money for the NHS? His Brexit deal is widely recognised as worse than Mays. The Brexit vote was taken as a blank cheque, The final deal should have been put back to the people to vote on.
Where I do agree with you is in terms of pessimism about the future, but that’s in large part because the hard Brexit we ended up with is a disaster taht will cripple the UK. I predict we will crawl back to the EU in stages and be full members again within 15 years. There is also the criminal lack of an alternative Tory leader, but that’s largely due to them selling themselves out to become the Johnson party, just like the republicans did with Trump. What’s left is terminally unsuited for government. Let’s hope they remain in opposition for a generation and actually come back with a more mainstream vision for the UK, if it still exists at that stage,
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Post by classicrock on Jun 16, 2022 10:30:03 GMT
Problem is Westie people actually voted to leave the EU. May Deal really did not do this so is even worse. Hard and soft Brexit is semantics. You are either in or out and issue is NI is half in still but there needs to be a smooth process to enable the UK internal market to operate without barriers. This argument enforces my view that Scottish Independence is unworkable especially if Sturgeon tried to join the EU. There is an internal market which you can't break established for over 300 years. Obviously if they get changes it may not satisfy the DUP but remember the Irish parliament previously didn't operate due to a Sinn Fein boycott.
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Post by Westie on Jun 16, 2022 10:37:37 GMT
Problem is Westie people actually voted to leave the EU. May Deal really did not do this so is even worse. Hard and soft Brexit is semantics. You are either in or out and issue is NI is half in still but there needs to be a smooth process to enable the UK internal market to operate without barriers. This argument enforces my view that Scottish Independence is unworkable especially if Sturgeon tried to join the EU. There is an internal market which you can't break established for over 300 years. Obviously if they get changes it may not satisfy the DUP but remember the Irish parliament previously didn't operate due to a Sinn Fein boycott. How can hard or soft Brexit be semantics? It has a massive impact on the life of people. Customs union? Freedom of movement? How can these be semantics. You can’t have it both ways. If the opinion of the people is paramount, why not give them a final say? I guarantee they would’ve voted to remain rather than have the hard Brexit and that’s why there was no vote. Both may and Boris were held hostage by the ERG and Farage, and it’s still a factor today. The Tory party is an extremist sect now. On the Irish problem, I think it’s intractable. The DUP never support anything that breaks the status quo. They are still the party of Ian Paisley. Like Andre, I’d far rather be rid of them, but many in NI don’t want that and I have to accept their rights. It again shows that a Brexit outside of the Customs Union should never have been contemplated whilst we had this issue. Clearly not semantics, as customs union dissolves the issue. |
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Post by classicrock on Jun 16, 2022 11:39:25 GMT
Problem is Westie people actually voted to leave the EU. May Deal really did not do this so is even worse. Hard and soft Brexit is semantics. You are either in or out and issue is NI is half in still but there needs to be a smooth process to enable the UK internal market to operate without barriers. This argument enforces my view that Scottish Independence is unworkable especially if Sturgeon tried to join the EU. There is an internal market which you can't break established for over 300 years. Obviously if they get changes it may not satisfy the DUP but remember the Irish parliament previously didn't operate due to a Sinn Fein boycott. How can hard or soft Brexit be semantics? It has a massive impact on the life of people. Customs union? Freedom of movement? How can these be semantics. You can’t have it both ways. If the opinion of the people is paramount, why not give them a final say? I guarantee they would’ve voted to remain rather than have the hard Brexit and that’s why there was no vote. Both may and Boris were held hostage by the ERG and Farage, and it’s still a factor today. The Tory party is an extremist sect now. On the Irish problem, I think it’s intractable. The DUP never support anything that breaks the status quo. They are still the party of Ian Paisley. Like Andre, I’d far rather be rid of them, but many in NI don’t want that and I have to accept their rights. It again shows that a Brexit outside of the Customs Union should never have been contemplated whilst we had this issue. Clearly not semantics, as customs union dissolves the issue. Well nobody defined the specific difference. Being in the customs union and single market isn't leaving. Not Brexit at all. Soft Brexit is same as staying in with no powers judging by the way some people define it. So not Brexit at all. It's either a media or political creation. I don't remember it coming up in the referendum. Simple choice leave or remain. I think for NI border the single market was more important as that is what they are in to a large extent. Comparison here is Norway. Agreeing to some common standards would probably have helped matters and it seems pretty stupid considering few standards have changed since leaving. Government can't be tied to trade deals they have no say in and wanted ability to make their own. A lot would be solved if the EU did the same type of trade deal with UK as they have done with other countries. A lot of this is to deter other members from leaving. There is also an issue with some companies just not ever being prepared for extra paperwork and preferring not to trade with NI. However it's not even clear why food bound for supermarkets within a closed company distribution system is being checked. No chance of it going to the south. Seems plenty scope to modify the implementation of the Protocol yet it appears no progress was being made. The DUP are a bit of a side issue as they are not predictable and are losing voter support. I don't think any agreement can ever satisfy them, so more a case of offering something that will leave then politically isolated and embarrass them to back down. If there is another election they might lose more votes. |
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