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Post by Westie on Jun 7, 2022 10:47:04 GMT
It looks like there is another round of fooling people using old names to describe new rip-offs. This time it’s speakers.
The Mission 770 at £3500 and Epos ES14 at £3800 are a freaking joke. Just go buy a pair of originals, enjoy proper build and sound, and save yourself over three grand.
Who’s buying these things? Probably folk who were too young to know the originals, but who want to look cool and knowledgeable to their Facebook Friends. Me Too speakers for the Me Too generation.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 7, 2022 15:36:13 GMT
Don't forget the re-clothed Quad Vena 2 in LEAK guise (Stereo 130). Thorens is doing it too, resurrecting old relics at least visually. Technics never really discontinued their classic turntable style (well, they did for a few years I suppose after the 1200mk2 was discontinued but it wasn't long).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 15:53:53 GMT
Thing is the TD160 rehash is nothing like its predecessor under the hood.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 7, 2022 16:04:48 GMT
Neither's the Leak amp, but the retro style seems to appeal to some...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 16:08:51 GMT
Neither's the Leak amp, but the retro style seems to appeal to some... I dont like those press buttons on the Thorens Dave |
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Post by Westie on Jun 7, 2022 16:12:49 GMT
They are completely out of step with the design.
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Post by classicrock on Jun 7, 2022 17:05:58 GMT
Problem is they are completely new designs that look quite like the originals. Not rebranding as the companies concerned own the brands and they are loosely based on the original size and configuration. Some do seem a bit expensive however. Maybe they sound competitive at that price? There is also a new Heybrook HB1 which does seem very OTT on price. heybrookhifi.co.uk/product/hb1/ Comeau is claimed to be involved while still working at IAG I believe. The problem with just buying an original is you have to find a working example in nice shape and maybe upgrade it yourself to compete. For instance the 70s Dovedale I once owned is very thin on the ground and drivers probably impossible to replicate. I don't hold with old is better but price increases are way above inflation even taking into account superior build. To put the HB1 in perspective Wilmslow Audio do a built recreation for around £1200. Less than half the cost of the new Heybrook. |
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Post by classicrock on Jun 7, 2022 17:10:03 GMT
Thing is the TD160 rehash is nothing like its predecessor under the hood. Reviews put it middle of current Linn range sound quality wise for far less money. I think they have recently introduced a superior tonearm for this model. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2022 17:16:48 GMT
'TD1601' Could easily be a better sounding deck than the original. For one this new model sit on its springs instead of hanging on them. Its also got balanced XLR aswell as unbalanced RCA's. I like how it looks more like a 'TD150' than a 'TD160' lol
I quite like the look of the arm too. However i dont like it when people make Retro Turntable but fit modern looking arms to them, just does not make sense to me.
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Post by Westie on Jun 7, 2022 18:51:11 GMT
Problem is they are completely new designs that look quite like the originals. Not rebranding as the companies concerned own the brands and they are loosely based on the original size and configuration. Some do seem a bit expensive however. Maybe they sound competitive at that price? There is also a new Heybrook HB1 which does seem very OTT on price. heybrookhifi.co.uk/product/hb1/ Comeau is claimed to be involved while still working at IAG I believe. The problem with just buying an original is you have to find a working example in nice shape and maybe upgrade it yourself to compete. For instance the 70s Dovedale I once owned is very thin on the ground and drivers probably impossible to replicate. I don't hold with old is better but price increases are way above inflation even taking into account superior build. To put the HB1 in perspective Wilmslow Audio do a built recreation for around £1200. Less than half the cost of the new Heybrook. Wow, even those Heybrooks from Wilmslow are expensive. If I go back to 1986/87 when I knew the Heybrooks, a shop job typically paid you £2-2.20 an hour. Today, it’s £9-10. That’s an increase by a factor of 4-5. The Heybrooks were £149 then £169 back then. I’d therefore expect to pay £6-700 for that level. If they are made in China, I’d expect to pay less. Given how cheap the old stuff is today, and how reliable it is too, you’d have to be utterly stupid to buy the new versions. Getting a good, working amp or pair of speakers isn’t that hard because there are so many out there. I still see all the items mentioned above (except possibly the Thorens) as “re-badged”:because they really aren’t the same companies and the products are simply superficially similar. My issue with the Thorens is what looks like electronics for phono equalisation inside. That sort it tat has no place in a decent turntable. |
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Post by Westie on Jun 8, 2022 9:05:46 GMT
How did I forget about Heybrook anyway? As if the new HB1 being £2750 isn’t a big enough piss take, the abortion of a stand they sell is a further £750. Three pairs of these with stands almost equals the price of a new car! Can’t wait to see them fail. heybrookhifi.co.uk/product-category/accessories/ |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 9:43:59 GMT
Those stands available at IKEA lol
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Post by classicrock on Jun 8, 2022 9:47:48 GMT
How did I forget about Heybrook anyway? As if the new HB1 being £2750 isn’t a big enough piss take, the abortion of a stand they sell is a further £750. Three pairs of these with stands almost equals the price of a new car! Can’t wait to see them fail. heybrookhifi.co.uk/product-category/accessories/The company backing it also makes a Leak valve amp clone for £7K. Seems a very small operation that has a lot of people running it. Hence the high prices. There is a big opportunity for someone to set up a speaker company with a decent range at realistic prices. As pointed out I'm sure Wilmslow make a good profit on their HB1 but It appears material costs have risen exponentially (wood especially) so difficult to tell if £1200 isn't reasonable. It's in line with the better UK designed / made in China models. In the case of IAG I think we are paying for the costs of setting up a new UK production facility pretty much from scratch but would thing they could cut Harbeth pricing in half for a similar speaker. People aren't going to pay such a big premium for UK made apart from the top of the market that are probably paying for the retro looks more than performance. With that Heybrook lot, making one model out of a shed near Chippenham and supporting a management team of five or six means Lamborgini pricing. I agree it's a business designed to fail. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2022 10:08:25 GMT
2nd Hand equipment market must be doing ok, i do see a big price hike in selling prices but still they are a fraction of the piss take prices new gear are holding. I would never ever buy any Hi-Fi new again, never.
How much were the 'HB-1' in the 80's. £150? You can pick up a pair for £75. Sort the units foam surrounds out for another £30 or even a new pair of units you still got a good pair of speakers for less than £300. Or even as mentioned the WA-HB1 at £450
People that find the 'HB-1' toppy well my answer to that is you play your music too loud. They also need a tame amp like a CREEK '4040/4140' or A&R 'A60', ROGERS 'A75'/'A100' etc..
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Post by dsjr on Jun 8, 2022 13:59:23 GMT
The only possible excuse (I put HB1's if made as they were in same quantities at £550 max the pair) I can see is the tiny quantities they might be made in. Not sure the Vifa tweet in the originals is made now (it wasn't too hot even then - a bit spitty - and my beloved ATC's used the same one I think but with thick metal front plate with small wave guide).
As said above, try to find a good pair of originals (or a cheap pair needing refoaming in the case of the HB1). I'd probably try to find some good pageant 2's myself if I wanted that vintage raw but honest 'tone.'
The audiophile market really is small and if you look on the larger UK forums, it's the same couple of dozen posters I suspect usually making a lot of noise, as I once did.
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