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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 14:36:58 GMT
Dave the problem with this argument is you always always go on about the master tapes. No one cares about how the band sounded in the studio. That is totally the last thing on an everyday listeners mind even at all. I dont give a crap how the band sounded in the studio i care about how my music is reproduced & to me the vinyl representation of the final product sounds way better than the Digital imitation of the representation
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Post by dsjr on Jul 12, 2022 11:54:18 GMT
Dave the problem with this argument is you always always go on about the master tapes. No one cares about how the band sounded in the studio. That's where you and I are totally 100% poles apart.
The band or orchestra worked damned hard to get the best sound they could (back then) in the final mixes and surely the object of a playback system is to recreate this as best as possible for the budget and speaker size constraints? Most artists of the time will tell you the vinyl was a compromise in interviews.
You've shouted loudly what *you* want from your sound system, so surely I'm allowed to say what I want too? I grew up with top quality master recording copies on tape (Dolby A too) and into a decent playback system the improvement in clarity and ease of delving into the music using decent grown up proper speakers was so much better than the vinyl we had back then - this on FIRST PRESSINGS you revere so much. if you're happy with it, then that's fine, but I think you're constricting the music window hugely in denying digital and the benefits it offers. many peeps have made digital copies of their LP's and can't tell the difference if they don't know what's playing. I just wish you'd understand that, but you won't or don't want to, so I'm again pissing in the wind and wasting energy I'd rather place elsewhere now frankly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2022 14:06:11 GMT
Dave the problem with this argument is you always always go on about the master tapes. No one cares about how the band sounded in the studio. That's where you and I are totally 100% poles apart.
Me & virtually ever one else too Dave express what you want you entitled.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 12, 2022 16:44:14 GMT
I don't know who virtually everyone else too comes from mate, but I have all the pro's I knew on my side and they were happy to demonstrate to me beyond doubt the stuff I'm trying to say now. Never mind. hell, I even find streamed YouTube to be acceptable these days - I'm doomed I tell ye, absofuckinglutely doomed... Glad to finally shake off some more tribal audiophool shackles now, feels rather grand actually
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Post by Westie on Jul 12, 2022 17:16:56 GMT
That’s the beauty of this game. A million different ways to get a sound you love.
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Post by classicrock on Jul 12, 2022 17:20:53 GMT
I think the problem Dave is you are saying digital does a better job of conveying what is on the master tapes. Now are you talking in terms of detail or musical presentation? In the case of an analogue tape, remaining in the analogue domain should have advantages in maintaining the sound. LP may not be the best way but CD certainly is not. I suspect those £450 tapes Analog Productions and the Tape Project produce may be the closest if you had that kind of cash and a good vintage tape deck. Digital recordings may be another thing and in theory an all digital chain should be best, but mastering and how good domestic digital playback actually is determines the result. In this respect CDs don't deliver and files(streaming or download) go through all sorts of conversion process's and even limiting. Would be surprised if many were a true hi res transfer from the master without some futzing around. On modern pop / rock you are more likely to get a less limited representation with vinyl than the digital version. I hope you have heard some of the modern AAA LPS from Analog Productions and Blue Note (usually cut by Kevin Gray or Ryan Smith). I think with a good vinyl playback system they are pretty close to the tape or as near as you would wish for at home. What Andre wants is not to get a close to the master but have a pleasing (warmer sound) from vintage gear. I'm looking for something closer and more detailed but I don't expect to get master tape sound at home as it's likely impossible and probably unaffordable unless you have a very large budget whether Vinyl LP or digital. My position is whatever playback you use you are at the mercy of the mastering engineer as to quality of sound you are hearing. I just find decent vinyl playback to provide more musical enjoyment and a more believable representation of music irrespective of measurements.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2022 18:55:20 GMT
For example vintage drums have a unique tone to them, that more modern drums dont possess. ill take Ringo Stars 'Classic' 60's Ludwig set as a reference. That old drum tone for example is kinda embedded in my memory. ofc its a certain tone i have picked up thru 1st issue vinyl played back thru vintage gear. If i play back on a CD the drum tone is not the same as is not the same from a Vinyl Re-issue. Digital is changing that tone. So its not about wanting whats in the studio, its wanting what i know from my old 1st issues.
Dave is obviously wolds apart from me looking for the original masters quality hoping Digital will bring him closer, where as if i wanted that the whole sound i need would be gone. Why i have no intention in moving forward.
Its all about what you are personally looking for out of music. Some people swear by their DANSETTE auto changers, that give them that old mono poor fidelity sound that a specialist Hi-Fi would not give.
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Post by classicrock on Jul 12, 2022 20:41:44 GMT
For example vintage drums have a unique tone to them, that more modern drums dont possess. ill take Ringo Stars 'Classic' 60's Ludwig set as a reference. That old drum tone for example is kinda embedded in my memory. ofc its a certain tone i have picked up thru 1st issue vinyl played back thru vintage gear. If i play back on a CD the drum tone is not the same as is not the same from a Vinyl Re-issue. Digital is changing that tone. So its not about wanting whats in the studio, its wanting what i know from my old 1st issues. Dave is obviously wolds apart from me looking for the original masters quality hoping Digital will bring him closer, where as if i wanted that the whole sound i need would be gone. Why i have no intention in moving forward. Its all about what you are personally looking for out of music. Some people swear by their DANSETTE auto changers, that give them that old mono poor fidelity sound that a specialist Hi-Fi would not give. Re Beatles. You can have the original sound if you were fortunate enough to buy the 2014 Mono Box. Also they reissued the Stereo Red and Blue albums AAA about the same time but watch out for recent represses from digital! Don't think Dave has done serious vinyl listening for a while? These certainly beat seeking out playable originals and better than CD. I understand it's difficult finding new AAA vinyl and what is out there is expensive. Often have to do with digital remasters if clean originals are unaffordable.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2022 21:15:47 GMT
Thats what i do have to make do with the re-issues till an original turns up, i get shut of the re-issue then. Even the new AAA Pressings, i would still want the 1st issue.
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Post by classicrock on Jul 13, 2022 7:48:30 GMT
Thats what i do have to make do with the re-issues till an original turns up, i get shut of the re-issue then. Even the new AAA Pressings, I would hang on to most of the AAA reissues I have. Most are done well or even sound better than an original. Some people want the original sound and covers but true mint seems near impossible these days since everyone overvalues and over grades vinyl. I do understand that as there is something about the original, although nostalgia may be a factor. Some of the reissues now fetch more than originals. Anything from the 90s is expensive because people think they pressed records in hundreds when it was many thousands. Often the pressings were not good and from digital.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2022 17:26:51 GMT
Vinyl is a good price for whats involved.
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Post by Westie on Jul 22, 2022 20:33:02 GMT
I think it is.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2022 20:47:30 GMT
Shame some of them don't take care in manufacture.
Did you notice the old SME arm on there.
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Post by Westie on Jul 23, 2022 13:20:34 GMT
I’ve never rated them at all but some folk do.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2022 14:18:24 GMT
I like em but not the cue. The cue on this Jelco is far superior.
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